Axis2 vs CXF

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Axis2 vs CXF

Arkady Kasianski
Hi everybody,

 

I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....

 

Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?

 

Thanks in advance

 

-Arkady


This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Alexey Zavizionov
Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison

PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge

Regards,
Alexey



On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>
>
>
> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> -Arkady
>
>
> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Sergey Beryozkin-6
I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
though URLs are provided

Thanks,
Sergey Beryozkin
blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF


> Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
> http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>
> PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
>
>
> On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>>
>>
>>
>> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>>
>> -Arkady
>>
>>
>> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
>> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>>
>

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Alexey Zavizionov
OK, I can too :)

There is only comparison axis and xfire
http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison

PS XFire and Celtix merge http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge

Regards,
Alexey

On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
> though URLs are provided
>
> Thanks,
> Sergey Beryozkin
> blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
>
>
> > Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
> >
> > PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alexey
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Hi everybody,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Arkady
> >>
> >>
> >> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
> >> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
> >>
> >
>
> ----------------------------
> IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
> Registered Number: 171387
> Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland
>
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Sergey Beryozkin-6
This is a very helpful answer and the audience is much wider :-)

Cheers, Sergey

P.S. I guess we can also set up a russian speaking cxf-user list too where we can write away in russian :-). we can chat offline if
there's any interest

> OK, I can too :)
>
> There is only comparison axis and xfire
> http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>
> PS XFire and Celtix merge http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
> On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
>> though URLs are provided
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sergey Beryozkin
>> blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
>>
>>
>> > Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
>> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>> >
>> > PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Alexey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Hi everybody,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Arkady
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
>> >> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland
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RE: Axis2 vs CXF

Arkady Kasianski
Thanks guys,

I saw the comparison table on the XFIre site....  I have about 5 years experience of Web services development with Axis and Apache SOAP. My foundation team developed Web services framework on top of Axis (were added many new features
such as async Web services with pooling/callbacks, conversational WS, binary encoded WS, various SOAP/WSDL tools, extended encoding subsystems, WS-* support - bundle together a number of Apache components into a single runtime, etc ..)

We provide Web services infrstaructure for huge system and application...

Looking ahead, we are on the junction now - where to go ?

1. Upgrade to Axis2, to have both JAX-RPC and JAX-WS support
2. Leave Apache Axis and move to Apache CXF
3. Leave open source arena, and be based only on a container (BEA, WAS) implementaiton-/we run onlu under JEE container/
   Our services must be available through indirect invocation via ESB...  
 
Could you guys share your opinions, pros and cons?

I will appreciate it very much

ps -  Please write me in English :-)

-Cheers, Arkady


-----Original Message-----
From: Sergey Beryozkin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF

This is a very helpful answer and the audience is much wider :-)

Cheers, Sergey

P.S. I guess we can also set up a russian speaking cxf-user list too where we can write away in russian :-). we can chat offline if
there's any interest

> OK, I can too :)
>
> There is only comparison axis and xfire
> http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>
> PS XFire and Celtix merge http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
> On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
>> though URLs are provided
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sergey Beryozkin
>> blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
>>
>>
>> > Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
>> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>> >
>> > PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Alexey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Hi everybody,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Arkady
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
>> >> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland

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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Dan Connelly-3
My advice:  Pick your ESB wisely (first).

The important comparison checklist to look at would be the spec-off between WSO2, ServiceMix and (maybe) Mule.

WSO2 uses Axis2, Synapse and Ode.

SerivceMix uses CXF.   (What the equivalent for Ode for CXF?)

Mule ??.

There is some discussion of this currently at http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=46044

       -- Dan Connelly

PS.   Stupid me, having only one language, Yanklish.   Good thing everyone else is smart.


Arkady Kasianski wrote:
Thanks guys, 

I saw the comparison table on the XFIre site....  I have about 5 years experience of Web services development with Axis and Apache SOAP. My foundation team developed Web services framework on top of Axis (were added many new features 
such as async Web services with pooling/callbacks, conversational WS, binary encoded WS, various SOAP/WSDL tools, extended encoding subsystems, WS-* support - bundle together a number of Apache components into a single runtime, etc ..) 

We provide Web services infrstaructure for huge system and application...

Looking ahead, we are on the junction now - where to go ?

1. Upgrade to Axis2, to have both JAX-RPC and JAX-WS support
2. Leave Apache Axis and move to Apache CXF
3. Leave open source arena, and be based only on a container (BEA, WAS) implementaiton-/we run onlu under JEE container/
   Our services must be available through indirect invocation via ESB...  
 
Could you guys share your opinions, pros and cons?

I will appreciate it very much

ps -  Please write me in English :-)

-Cheers, Arkady


-----Original Message-----
From: Sergey Beryozkin [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF

This is a very helpful answer and the audience is much wider :-)

Cheers, Sergey

P.S. I guess we can also set up a russian speaking cxf-user list too where we can write away in russian :-). we can chat offline if 
there's any interest

  
OK, I can too :)

There is only comparison axis and xfire
http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison

PS XFire and Celtix merge http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge

Regards,
Alexey

On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin [hidden email] wrote:
    
I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
though URLs are provided

Thanks,
Sergey Beryozkin
blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexey Zavizionov" [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF


      
Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison

PS XFire и Celtix слияние http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge

Regards,
Alexey



On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski [hidden email] wrote:
        
Hi everybody,



I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....



Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?



Thanks in advance



-Arkady


This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp

          

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland


  

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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Sergey Beryozkin-6
In reply to this post by Arkady Kasianski
I'm not sure ODE has to do anything with CXF ...It's a WS-BPEL impl. What it does is kind of orthogonal to what CXF is about, isn't it ? CXF can help one to write a service among other things but how to implement the service is orthogonal, BPEL-based service implementation is just one possible option really and it seems well above CXF or Axis2.

Thanks, Sergey

P.S. Sorry, had to remove your PS as the spam filter was rejecting my reply.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dan Connelly
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF


  My advice:  Pick your ESB wisely (first).

  The important comparison checklist to look at would be the spec-off between WSO2, ServiceMix and (maybe) Mule.

  WSO2 uses Axis2, Synapse and Ode.

  SerivceMix uses CXF.   (What the equivalent for Ode for CXF?)

  Mule ??.

  There is some discussion of this currently at http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=46044

         -- Dan Connelly

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Paul Brown-3
In reply to this post by Dan Connelly-3
On 7/5/07, Dan Connelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  My advice:  Pick your ESB wisely (first).
>  The important comparison checklist to look at would be the spec-off between
> WSO2, ServiceMix and (maybe) Mule.
>  WSO2 uses Axis2, Synapse and Ode.
>  SerivceMix uses CXF.   (What the equivalent for Ode for CXF?)
>  Mule ??.

So...  Ode is a BPEL implementation, and as such, the details of SOAP
transport are abstracted away.  (BPEL only depends on WSDL at the
level of ports and operations, not at the level of bindings and
services.)

Ode includes an integration layer for ServiceMix and an integration
layer for AXIS2, and once of Ode's predecessors, PXE, was integrated
with Mule.  It would be possible (and not difficult) to cook up an
integration layer for Ode and CXF, and anyone interested in doing so
should hop on by the Ode lists.  (Work to integrate Ode with the
Tuscany SCA project is ongoing.)

IMHO, a "spec-off" is not that useful, since many of the components
are shared -- there is *one* Apache-licensed BPEL implementation
(Ode), *one* Apache-licensed WS-Policy implementation (Neethi), etc.
Ergo, the various systems (AXIS, ServiceMix, CXF, etc.) have these
components in common, and they're not a differentiator.  Specs are
really only useful for integrating with external partners or tooling.

Instead, take a look at the ergonomics of the different platforms and
components and decide which one suits you best.

Just my $0.02.

--
[hidden email]
http://mult.ifario.us/
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Daniel Kulp
Administrator
In reply to this post by Arkady Kasianski

Hmm...  this is kind of a loaded question...   Since you're asking on the
cxf-user list, you'll obviously get responses that are slanted more
toward CXF..  :-)

Couple comments though....

> 1. Upgrade to Axis2, to have both JAX-RPC and JAX-WS support

I don't think this is true.   Axis 2 doesn't support JAX-RPC and it's
JAX-WS support is not finished yet.   (probably a month off or so, at
least)     For people that require JAX-RPC, they'll probably need to
stay on Axis 1.    I don't know if the Axis 2 folks plan to certify
JAX-WS standalone or not.   The Geronimo folks are planning to to
certify with Axis 2 for JAX-WS/J2EE, but they have ALREADY certified
with CXF for JAX-WS/J2EE.    CXF 2.0 is JAX-WS compliant today.


In any case, for most basic use cases, either Axis 2 or CXF should be
able to fit the bill.   The differences are mostly in approach.   Axis 2
tends to do things in a more "proprietary" way (proprietary APIs,
packaging, datamodels, deployment models, etc...) and then tries to bolt
on the standands more as an afterthought.    The JAX-WS case is a good
example.    CXF, on the other hand, promotes the standards based APIs as
the default.   JAX-WS and JAXB are our preferred API's.   There are
proprieatry API's that you may need to use for advanced things (and also
migration from XFire, etc...) but for most cases, stick with the
standards.    We also tried to leverage other existing and popular
technology such as Spring a bit better.  

The other point of note is that the CXF folks have worked closely with
the Apache Yoko folks to produce a CORBA binding for CXF.   With Apache
CXF + Apache Yoko, you can actually use the standards based JAX-WS+JAXB
API's to communicate with CORBA services (and expose your JAX-WS+JAXB
services to CORBA clients).      The CXF framework was designed to
support pluggable bindings like that.   (Axis 2 may as well, I don't
really know)

From a pure "bullet list" of features, I don't think either one would
really win out.   CXF supports some stuff Axis 2 doesn't and vice versa.  
As Paul Brown said in his reply, you really need to evaluate everything
and see what "feels" best for your use case.    I think the two major
things that set CXF apart would be it's support for standards (both the
WS-* standards as well as the Java programming model standards) and it's
flexibility in deployment models (in servlet engine, embeddable,
standalone, Spring,  etc....).  


Did that clarify anything or make it worse?  

Dan




On Thursday 05 July 2007 12:08, Arkady Kasianski wrote:

> Thanks guys,
>
> I saw the comparison table on the XFIre site....  I have about 5 years
> experience of Web services development with Axis and Apache SOAP. My
> foundation team developed Web services framework on top of Axis (were
> added many new features such as async Web services with
> pooling/callbacks, conversational WS, binary encoded WS, various
> SOAP/WSDL tools, extended encoding subsystems, WS-* support - bundle
> together a number of Apache components into a single runtime, etc ..)
>
> We provide Web services infrstaructure for huge system and
> application...
>
> Looking ahead, we are on the junction now - where to go ?
>
> 1. Upgrade to Axis2, to have both JAX-RPC and JAX-WS support
> 2. Leave Apache Axis and move to Apache CXF
> 3. Leave open source arena, and be based only on a container (BEA,
> WAS) implementaiton-/we run onlu under JEE container/ Our services
> must be available through indirect invocation via ESB...
>
> Could you guys share your opinions, pros and cons?
>
> I will appreciate it very much
>
> ps -  Please write me in English :-)
>
> -Cheers, Arkady
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sergey Beryozkin [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
>
> This is a very helpful answer and the audience is much wider :-)
>
> Cheers, Sergey
>
> P.S. I guess we can also set up a russian speaking cxf-user list too
> where we can write away in russian :-). we can chat offline if there's
> any interest
>
> > OK, I can too :)
> >
> > There is only comparison axis and xfire
> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
> >
> > PS XFire and Celtix merge
> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alexey
> >
> > On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please
> >> be aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
> >> though URLs are provided
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sergey Beryozkin
> >> blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
> >> To: <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
> >>
> >> > Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
> >> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
> >> >
> >> > PS XFire и Celtix слияние
> >> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Alexey
> >> >
> >> > On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >> Hi everybody,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks in advance
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -Arkady
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary
> >> >> and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement, you
> >> >> may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>
> ----------------------------
> IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
> Registered Number: 171387
> Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4,
> Ireland

--
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727    C: 508-380-7194
[hidden email]
http://www.dankulp.com/blog
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Bozhong Lin-2
In reply to this post by Alexey Zavizionov
Maybe it is to put out another comparison sheet among Axis2, CXF, and
Metro on Apache CXF wiki. I will try to work on this in the next week.
Any suggestions are welcome.

Regards,
Bo

Alexey Zavizionov wrote:

> OK, I can too :)
>
> There is only comparison axis and xfire
> http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>
> PS XFire and Celtix merge
> http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
> On 7/5/07, Sergey Beryozkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I can understand this answer as I can read Russian :-) but please be
>> aware there're many people here which can not read it, even
>> though URLs are provided
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sergey Beryozkin
>> blog: http://sberyozkin.blogspot.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alexey Zavizionov" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF
>>
>>
>> > Есть только сравнения axis и xfire
>> > http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison
>> >
>> > PS XFire и Celtix слияние
>> http://xfire.codehaus.org/XFire+and+Celtix+Merge
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Alexey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Hi everybody,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Arkady
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary
>> and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
>> >> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------
>> IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
>> Registered Number: 171387
>> Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4,
>> Ireland
>>
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Dan Connelly-3
In reply to this post by Sergey Beryozkin-6
Sergey:

I disagree that WS-BPEL can be considered orthogonal looking forward into future of SOA, CXF in particular.

Only Spring WS gets this right.    The Business Service(s) must be injected into the message delivery Endpoint.   Web Services are not Business Services.   The purpose of Business Services is to drive revenue.

In constrast, Axis2 service skeletons are bad idea because they encourages CORBA-istic thinking, that its all just some elaborate (and expensive) plumbing.

Fortuitously, Axis2 gets bailed out by its Synapse and Ode integrations, IMHO.   Add to this the WSO2 ESB web management (for Synapse/Axis2) and it starts looking pretty good for dear old Axis2.

Of course, as Paul Brown points out, all these tools are fairly promiscuous.   Its all licentious Plug and Play, if that's what you want.     However, my opinion is that SOA has passed the point where a joga bonita will its driving force.    It needs to stick the ball in the back of the net at this point.

        -- Dan Connelly  


PS.   I really do like JBI and ServiceMix.   SM is really nice for gluing component containers together, and it has a useful CXF integration.    But here we are talking about expensive plumbing again, and again, and again.


Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
I'm not sure ODE has to do anything with CXF ...It's a WS-BPEL impl. What it does is kind of orthogonal to what CXF is about, isn't it ? CXF can help one to write a service among other things but how to implement the service is orthogonal, BPEL-based service implementation is just one possible option really and it seems well above CXF or Axis2.

Thanks, Sergey

P.S. Sorry, had to remove your PS as the spam filter was rejecting my reply. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan Connelly 
  To: [hidden email] 
  Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF


  My advice:  Pick your ESB wisely (first).

  The important comparison checklist to look at would be the spec-off between WSO2, ServiceMix and (maybe) Mule.

  WSO2 uses Axis2, Synapse and Ode.

  SerivceMix uses CXF.   (What the equivalent for Ode for CXF?)

  Mule ??.

  There is some discussion of this currently at http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=46044

         -- Dan Connelly

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland
  

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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Dan Diephouse-2
In reply to this post by Arkady Kasianski
I just posted this to TSS as well, but I thought people might want to read
it here too:

As a CXF author, I'm particularly biased here, and this will probably start
a flame war, but you asked for opinions...

* CXF is JAX-WS certified - While JAX-WS has some flaws, I think there is a
lot to be said for using the standard JAX-WS APIs when possible. They're
easy to use, they're well documented (JAX-WS even has a book now somewhere),
and they'll be supported well into the future.
* Spring 2.0 XML support - It doesn't get much simpler than declaring a
<jaxws:endpoint .../> in a Spring file.
* Support for manipulating non-XML formats inside Interceptors/Handlers. I.e.
you can write an interceptor which does GZipping pretty
easily.<http://netzooid.com/blog/2007/07/01/working-with-non-xml-formats-in-cxf-interceptors/>
* Annotated RESTful
services<http://cwiki.apache.org/CXF20DOC/restful-services.html>
* Aegis databinding support which transparently handles most datatypes
including Maps correctly.

(from here on out, this is my subjective opinions, be sure to read the
conclusion!)

Personally I feel that CXF is simpler as well. Axis2 *typically* generates
(or requires you to generate) a lot of XML descriptors (i.e. services.xml)
and java files, which I find a bit confusing. For example, when deploying an
Axis2 service inside Spring, you need both write some bean descriptors and
also modify/create a services.xml
file.<http://ws.apache.org/axis2/1_2/spring.html>In CXF you just need
a one line snippet added to your bean definitions:

<jaxws:endpoint id="foo" implementor="FooServiceImpl" address="
http://localhost:8080/foo"/>

Or possibly:

<jaxws:endpoint id="foo" implementor="#fooBean" address="
http://localhost:8080/foo"/>

<bean id="fooBean" class="FooServiceImpl"/>

Speaking of containers, CXF takes a different approach here than Axis2.
Axis2 is not only trying to help you build services, it is also trying to be
an appserver. You can build deployment archives (AARs), deploy them into the
container, etc. If you just peruse the documentation, I think it gives off a
very appserverish feel. While I realize you can use it in a non-appserverish
kind of way, like deploying a POJO via the API, IMO using Axis2 in this way
feels more like an afterthought. Axis2 was designed to be an appserver
first.

My opinion is that we've already got a lot of great containers & appservers
out there - Spring, JBoss, ESBs, etc. We want to work with your existing
containers to create the best integration possible. Need hot deploy? Then we
have a whole host of containers out there which can do that for us,
including things like ServiceMix (MULE should support it as well, I just
don't know that I've tried it with MULE).

CXF is very focused on building clean, extensible, and easy to use APIs to
make container/appserver integration easy. Lots of people are doing
integration into their own proprietary platforms as they create standardized
ways for developers to build services across their organization. I
personally think that CXF makes this quite easy to do and quite easy for
them to manage their services. YMMV.

(BTW, did you see that JBossWS is adding support for pluggable web service
frameworks - including
CXF<http://netzooid.com/blog/2007/07/02/jbossws-supports-cxf-as-a-pluggable-ws-framework/>?
:-))

Ultimately, I don't know that anyone should be comparing frameworks based on
features alone. Its not a quantitative issue, its a qualitative one. As
such, its quite subjective and I would encourage you to download CXF and try
it out. You may just like it :-)

Regards,
- Dan

On 7/5/07, Arkady Kasianski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> I have to choose between Axis 2 and CXF ....
>
>
>
> Could someone compare  between both WS frameworks ?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> -Arkady
>
>
> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and
> confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>



--
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com | http://netzooid.com/blog
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Re: Axis2 vs CXF

Dan Connelly-3
In reply to this post by Dan Connelly-3
Backtracking on myself a bit, WS-BPEL and Ode are only one way to address the linkage of business services with web services.

The core aspect is actually less complex, less orthogonal.   At this point I would focus, instead, on the ability to create of ad hoc, dynamic, composed service implementations using a scripting language.   

So a simplified approach when looking at the future of WSDLing servers is to look at their support for JavaScript   Both CXF (as a server) and WSO2 Mashup server (which is built on Axis2) support JavaScript for service implementation.   I am not sure about Metro, SpringWS or JBossWS.   I believe that Microsoft's WCF supports VB Script for services.   Are there others?

Having the script mimic JAX-WS is ok, but not a requirement, in my book.   The comparison I would like to see is between CXF server and WSO2 Mashup server.

Ideally, bpel can be extended by other scripting, like JavaScript.   However, I am not sure if the standard supports that or if Ode, for instance, would support such an extension.   


       -- Dan Connelly




Dan Connelly wrote:
Sergey:

I disagree that WS-BPEL can be considered orthogonal looking forward into future of SOA, CXF in particular.

Only Spring WS gets this right.    The Business Service(s) must be injected into the message delivery Endpoint.   Web Services are not Business Services.   The purpose of Business Services is to drive revenue.

In constrast, Axis2 service skeletons are bad idea because they encourages CORBA-istic thinking, that its all just some elaborate (and expensive) plumbing.

Fortuitously, Axis2 gets bailed out by its Synapse and Ode integrations, IMHO.   Add to this the WSO2 ESB web management (for Synapse/Axis2) and it starts looking pretty good for dear old Axis2.

Of course, as Paul Brown points out, all these tools are fairly promiscuous.   Its all licentious Plug and Play, if that's what you want.     However, my opinion is that SOA has passed the point where a joga bonita will its driving force.    It needs to stick the ball in the back of the net at this point.

        -- Dan Connelly  


PS.   I really do like JBI and ServiceMix.   SM is really nice for gluing component containers together, and it has a useful CXF integration.    But here we are talking about expensive plumbing again, and again, and again.


Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
I'm not sure ODE has to do anything with CXF ...It's a WS-BPEL impl. What it does is kind of orthogonal to what CXF is about, isn't it ? CXF can help one to write a service among other things but how to implement the service is orthogonal, BPEL-based service implementation is just one possible option really and it seems well above CXF or Axis2.

Thanks, Sergey

P.S. Sorry, had to remove your PS as the spam filter was rejecting my reply. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan Connelly 
  To: [hidden email] 
  Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: Axis2 vs CXF


  My advice:  Pick your ESB wisely (first).

  The important comparison checklist to look at would be the spec-off between WSO2, ServiceMix and (maybe) Mule.

  WSO2 uses Axis2, Synapse and Ode.

  SerivceMix uses CXF.   (What the equivalent for Ode for CXF?)

  Mule ??.

  There is some discussion of this currently at http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=46044

         -- Dan Connelly

----------------------------
IONA Technologies PLC (registered in Ireland)
Registered Number: 171387
Registered Address: The IONA Building, Shelbourne Road, Dublin 4, Ireland